Friday, April 8, 2016

HAND, KNEE AND FOOT...HOW TO PLAY

HAND, KNEE AND FOOT
HOW TO PLAY

Begin:  Draw for deal. High card is dealer. Dealer deals 15 cards for “hand”. Player to the right of dealer deals 13 cards for the “knee”. And person to his right deals 11 cards for the “foot”.
The “foot” is placed in front of each player with the “knee” then placed on top crosswise. All “HANDS” are looked at first for red 3’s which are placed in front of the player. Starting to the dealer’s left, 1 card is drawn from the stockpile to replace each red 3. In clockwise order, all red 3’s are shown and replaced before play begins.
Decide which team member will hold the closed canastas for the final count and other team member will lay cards in front of him for melds. Red 3’s are given to the closed keeper. Red 3’s found later in “knee” and “foot” are not replaced. Red 3’s later drawn from stockpile are replaced immediately (do not put in hand, but are given to closed keeper).
Dealer turns top card over. If it is a 7, 5, wild or red 3, another card is turned and placed on top. Player to the dealer’s left begins by drawing 2 cards from the stockpile. He is looking for points to lay down the 1st meld (minimum 3 like cards). If instead of drawing , the player wants to pick up the top card of the discard pile to use with 2 natural like cards in his hand to make initial meld he may do so. If he has the cards within his hand for the correct points meld, he may lay down his meld (the first for the team) and then pick up the whole discard pile with 2 natural cards to match the top card on the discard pile and play those cards additionally. After initial meld by team, anytime the top card of the discard pile is wanted (with two natural cards in his hand) he must pick up the entire discard pile. When the discard pile is picked up and cards played, the player “knocks” that he is done playing (no discard is  layed). If a player picks 2 cards from the stockpile, he plays his cards, and then he will discard 1 card.
Once the 1st 7 card canasta is completed, it is handed to the closed keeper and the player picks up his “knee” immediately and continues to play those cards, as he chooses, until he either discards or “knocks”. His partner must wait until his turn to pick up his “knee” and before looking at his “knee”, he must decide if he wants to pick 2 cards from the stockpile or pick up the entire discard pile for further meld, using two cards in his hand, which matches the top card in the discard pile. Then he continues to play the cards in his “knee” until done. If a player forgets to pick up his “knee” in his turn and is reminded by his partner or opponent, a 1000 point deduction is given to the reminder.
As the BASIC BOOKs of canastas are made, any cards of the basic books may not be buried. The cards that made up the Red or Black canastas in the BASIC BOOKS can be restarted in another meld, and when completed, set aside as additional canastas. Only those 7 cards can be played. At you next turn or partners next turn, additional like cards can be buried. Wild cards, 7s and 5s can never be buried. They can be restarted for another meld with the same original point count. Wilds can also be used to make Black canastas or discarded. 5s and 7s can never be blackened.
When all cards of the “hand” and “knee” are played, the “foot” may be picked up and continue to play. If a discard was made, the “foot” will be played in your following turn.
If a player is in his “foot”, he may “go out” if he has the BASIC BOOKS completed, and can play all his cards or “bury them”. One discard is allowed when “going out”. Before “going out”, a player must ask his team mates permission. The team mate does not have to be in his “foot”, but will consider the possible point deductions in his un-played cards.

If all cards from the stockpile have been played and neither team can “go out”, then the point count will include partial BASIC BOOK and other canastas, red 3s, and deductions for un-played cards.


POINT COUNT FOR HAND KNEE AND FOOT


PLAYERS:  Four players - play 2 teams of 2 each with 6 decks
                     Six players – play 2 teams of 3 each with 7 decks
GAME:  A game consists of four rounds.

POINT VALUES
JOKERS…………………..50 POINTS
ACES & DEUCES……..20 POINTS
RED THREES……………100 POINTS  (DEDUCT 500 POINTS WHEN NOT PLAYED)
8 THRU KING………….10 POINTS
4 THRU 7…………………5 POINTS
BLACK THREES …………DEDUCT 100 POINTS WHEN NOT PLAYED

SCORE                                                                                                        MELD REQUIREMENTS
UP TO 15,000………………………….50 POINTS
15,000 TO 30,000……………………..90 POINTS
30,000 TO 50,000……………………..120 POINTS
OVER 50,000……………………………150 POINTS
IN ORDER TO “GO OUT”, A TEAM MUST HAVE ON THE TABLE THE FOLLOWING REQUIRED CANASTAS
THIS IS YOUR “BASIC BOOKS”
ONE CANASTA OF SEVEN                       7’S (NO WILD CARDS)
ONE CANASTA OF SEVEN                      5’  (NO WILD CARDS)
ONE CANASTA OF SEVEN                      WILD CARDS (DUECES AND JOKERS)
ONE CANASTA OF SEVEN                     CLEAN (RED, NATURAL, ALL THE SAME CARD)(NO WILD CARDS)
ONE CANASTA OF SEVEN                      DIRTY (MIXED NATURAL CARDS WITH MAXIMUM OF 2 WILD CARDS)
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SCORING:
CANASTA OF 7’S………………………………………………………………………..…….5,000 POINTS EA
CANASTA OF 5’S……………………………………………………………………………..3,000 POINTS  EA
CANASTA OF WILD CARDS………………………………………………………………….………2,500 POINTS EA
CANASTA OF SEVEN, CLEAN OR RED………………………………………………………….500 POINTS  EA
CANASTA OF SEVEN MIXED……………………………………………………………………….300 POINTS  EA
THE ABOVE “BASIC BOOKS” TOTALED TOGETHER HAVE A VALUE OF………..11,300 POINTS  ADDITIONAL BOOKS OF 7’S, 5’S AND WILD CARDS SCORE AS ABOVE
TEAM GOING OUT………………………………………………………………    …..200 POINTS
 7 RED THREES………………………(700 pts plus 300 pt bonus) ....................…….1,000 POINTS
RED THREES REMAINING IN HAND, UNPLAYED……………………………………………….MINUS 500 POINTS EA

BLACK THREES REMAINING IN HAND, UNPLAYED…………………………………………..MINUS 100 POINTS EA

154 comments:

  1. How do you start the melding for the first hand?

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    1. When ever a player has the proper point count for their teams score to meld he can do so in his turn. Or they can choose to wait to see if their pardner has a better way to meld. Example: you have to meld using many wild cards and may choose to wait to see what your pardner may have (maybe able to meld with no wild cards) that way saving your wilds for the first canasta. All in the strategy of the game.

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    2. Can you use "only" wild cards for meld?

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  2. Do you count the red threes individually after they have been counted as a canasta ?

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    1. NO THEY ALREADY COUNT AS A 1000 POINTS FOR THE CANASTA

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    2. DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. INDIVIDUALLY THEY TOTAL 1400 BUT AS A CANASTA, ONLY 1000.

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    3. Just to clarify. Red threes count 100 points each when on the table. When you have 7 red threes you get 700 points for them and a bonus of 300 points for having 7. We usually call it a canasta but it really is not. So if by chance you start the game with 7 red threes it is not considered a canasta that gets you into your knee.

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  3. If you have two 5's or 7's in your hand , can you pick from the discard pile if the top card is a 5 or 7?

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  4. If you have one four and a wild card can you pickup from discard pile if another four is on top,

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    1. NO YOU MUST HAVE TWO OF THAT CARD IN HAND. WILD CARDS CANNOT HELP. ALSO REMEMBER THAT IF YOU A STARTED CANASTA ON THE TABLE OF FIVE OR MORE CARDS YOU CANNOT PICK UP THE PILE. REASON BEING THAT YOU MUST LAY THE CARDS ON THE TABLE AND A CANASTA CAN ONLY TAKE SEVEN CARDS. PICKING UP THE PILE WOULD GIVE YOU MORE THAN SEVEN.

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  5. Do you have to lay all your requirements before you go to the discard pile ?

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  6. I've just joined a group of ladies playing this game. So complicated! Your rules are pretty clear. I think my friends have more though. You didn't mention the required minimum per hand when laying down your first meld. I like the play, but not when its time to count the scores, too many large numbers for me.

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    1. Meld starts at 50 points. Look at the score sheet and you will find the meld values there.

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  7. How do you score other canastas (not basic)?

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  8. We had an incident while playing hand knee and foot. My partner and I had not booked any cards, but I had a discard then go into my knee. We were told I could not go into my knee until we closed a set of cards. It this correct? I was suppose to sit there until my partner or I closed a book? I was called a cheater!!!

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  9. You cannot go into your knee till the first book is complete. No on should call another player a cheat! It is just clarifications of the rules.

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  10. If a deuce is discarded, can you pick up the pile with two deuces?

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    1. Yes you can pick it up with two in hand as long as you have not already melded 5 or more on the table.

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    2. When I’ve played regular Hand and Foot or Canasta, a deuce blocks the pile from being picked up

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    3. That is Canasta this is Hand Knee and Foot

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    4. In canasta, hand & foot and hand foot & knee a black 3 blocks the discard pile from being picked up also. When our group started playing hand knee and foot we did not like all the rules and adapted them to fit us. So we liked the black three blocking pick up and we play that way. My thought is Canasta is the original game and hand & foot and hand foot & knee is a variation of canasta. My opinion only. Don’t stress…. Have fun!

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  11. Definitely not. It serves as a black 3, blocking the pile for the next player.

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    1. Wrong...wild cards do not block the pile.

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    2. Apparently there are different variations of this game.

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  12. Once you have given the score of 11,300 points for your "basic books", are you supposed to count those books in that same basic book pile again individually like you do for the "regular" canasta books?

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  13. yes. All cards are counted with the exception of the red 3’s.

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  14. If you have no cards left in your hand, but do not have a canasta book, do you continue drawing and/or picking up the discard pile until you have a canasta in order to open your knee?

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    1. You must have a book to go into your knee. If no book then a card must be held.

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  15. I understood that you could only discard/use your last card when you are going into your foot or going out.

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  16. When you pick a red three from stock pile how many card or cards do you get for that red three?

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  17. New to this game but I have played Hand and Foot for years.
    I have a question or two about this new game.

    1. The scoring information implies that on the second hand if one team has not reached a score of 15,000, they still meld only 50 points while the other team may have to meld 90. Am I interpreting that correctly since only four rounds are played?

    The rules state: "If a player forgets to pick up his “knee” in his turn and is reminded by his partner or opponent, a 1000 point deduction is given to the reminder."

    2. I think this means: Deduct 1000 (a) from team score if partner issues the reminder, or (b) from team score if opponent issues the reminder. Is this correct? If so it would be a dumb move for a partner to issue a reminder.

    So looking forward to playing this with my long-time group. :-)

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  19. Does burying a card mean you add a card to an already closed canasta? Do you count its point value at the end?

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  20. My understanding is:- Yes and Yes. However you cannot bury 2's, 5's or 7's, for these you need to start another 'canasta'.

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  21. Thank you. Can you make a canasta from black 3's?

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    1. Our group allows black 3’s as a canasta and it counts as 500 pts

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    2. You do not make books of black 3's. They are used in the stragedy of the game. They are used as blockers in the discard pile and a hinderance if trying to go out and you have them in your hand. This is not a simple game of Canasta and made to be easy. It is more of a thinking game.

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  22. When laying down cards with wild cards how many natural cards must you have per wild card?

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    1. Never more than TWO wild cards, but ALWAYS more natural than wild cards in the meld. e.g. 2N+1W, 3N+1W, 3N+2W, 4N(5N)+1W or 2W.

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  23. When playing wild cards with natural cards how many natural cards must you play per wild card?

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    1. Never more than TWO wild cards, but ALWAYS more natural than wild cards in the meld. e.g. 2N+1W, 3N+1W, 3N+2W, 4N(5N)+1W or 2W.

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  24. As I understand it from previous posts from Di Martin. Never more than TWO wild cards, but ALWAYS more natural than wild cards in the meld. e.g. 2N+1W, 3N+1W, 3N+2W, 4N(5N)+1W or 2W.

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    1. David, you are correct. No more than two wild cards in a book, but always more natural than wild cards in the meld.

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  25. Do I have to have 3 red threes before I can lay the 3's on the table? Also after I get 7 red threes can I add more red 3's to the book that has the 7 red 3's?

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    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    2. Before play begins anyone holding red threes must lay then on the table and another card is drawn to replace it. Red threes are 100 points each (they do not count towards initial meld) with a bonus of 300 points given if you have collected 7.

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  26. Lay all the red threes down that are in your Hand before Dealer turns over a card at the beginning of the game. These are replaced before play starts. Subsequent red threes are declared as they present during your turn. If from the deck they are replaced; from Knee or Foot they are not. Any group of seven counts 1000pts. Thus eight red threes are worth 1100 pts at the end of the game.

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  27. If you use the top card of the discard pile to meld, do you pick up any other cards from the discard pile?

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    1. No, if using the top card to meld. You do not pick up any other cards but you must discard a card leaving at least one card in hand. Exception is that you have completed a canasta while making your meld. If in doing so you have used all cards in hand then you can go into your knee and play it. If you can play all your knee then you can go into your foot and play it. Discard is made when you can no longer play. Again at least one card must be held in hand at the end of your turn.

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    2. I've read the rules for the discard pile on several websites. They all seem to be different as to how many cards you must pick up. All say you must have 2 in your hand of the top card of the discard pile. But, some say you have to discard 2 cards from your hand, then pick up the top 2 cards, some say you must pick up the entire discard pile, another one says to pick up 7 cards. What is the official rule? How many cards of the discard pile must you pick up? Thank you

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    3. You must have 2 in your hand the same as the top card on the discard pile. If you have not melded and need the top card to complete your meld then you can only take the top card. If your team has already melded then along as you do not already have 5 of those cards melded on the table you must pick up the entire pile and do not discard. Remember you always have the choice to draw instead. Have fun. Oh sorry was not notified of your post until today.

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  28. First, thanks for the blog. We have some players who have played in other groups and they allow pick up of the discard pile if you have 3 or more of that suit on the table as a meld. No two in the hand rquirement. Is this a common rule?

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    1. What you are speaking of is a canasta rule and not a hand knee and foot rule. You must have two in your hand to pick up the discard pile and only if you have melded first and do not already have a book started with 5 or more of that particular card.

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  29. HELP .... I've played all my hand but don't have a canasta.... Do I go right to my knee??? Or do I have to keep cards in my hand and throwing things I Need or wait until I get the canasta or my partner gets the canasta before I go to my knee???

    How do y'all play this rule??? I can't find anything about this thank you!!

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    1. Your team has to have a book(canasta) before either can go into Knee, you can't discard your last card. If partner makes the canasta, on your turn you must first decide what pile (two from stock or face-up pile with two natural cards) you will pick up before looking at your knee.

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  30. Keep cards in your hands and discard a good card. Must get a canasta before picking up your knee

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  31. Can this be played with 2 people?

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    1. Yes I play it with my son all the time!

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    2. Yes play it with my husband all the time

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  32. Can red threes be discarded to an opponent's instead of declared

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    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    2. No, red threes must be laid on the table as you get them. If found in your hand, or if drawn they are replaced. If in your knee or foot they are not replaced.

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    3. They are never discarded and do not freeze or block the pile.

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  33. No. In addition there is never an advantage in giving your opponent 100 pts. I don't know if you could ever use a red three to block the discard pile from pick-up.

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  34. David, I am the administrator of this page. I deleted several posts from a person named Barb because her answers were incorrect. I have seen you replies to questions and so far they are spot on and I thank you for you help. For some reason the page is not notifying me of new posts so I will try to actually check more often. Thanks for the help.

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    1. I didn't mean to interfere. I have often waited a couple of weeks to see if you were going to reply to a particular question. Just wanted to keep the game going. David

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  35. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  36. Can your partner take your foot if they’ve already played through their Hand & Knee & you’re stuck? We’ve played Hand & Foot for years, but don’t see this mentioned in any rules for Hand, Knee & Foot. Great Q&A, by the way!

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  37. IS it within the rules, to lay your hand on the table in a way as to touch the knee, as a remindeer to pick it up, after your partner has made made a meld , while you are waiting for you turn?

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  39. Can you bury cards to Go into Foot or at any time while in foot??

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    1. You can only bury when you have made a complete second meld for that card. This does not apply to wild, seven or five melds, for which a third meld should be started.

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  40. When you go out do you “count the cards left on the board that didn’t make it to a canasta?

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  41. So you don’t Count the card points at end of game?
    Just the Book, extra canasta sand red three??

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    1. Yes, you do count each individual card points of each card that is played and subtract any cards left in hand.

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  42. Is there any place I can get a correct scoring sheet? I'm not having any luck finding them and rather not have to design my own. I appreciate any help. Thanks.

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    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    2. At the beginning of this blog, on the right, Di Martin has provided a score sheet.

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  43. Question: If you have 2 red threes on the board - that's all and the opposing team goes out - are the 3's counted against you? Just happened one team had no cards on the table, no melds ie all 6 hands between then counted against but had 2 red three's on the board and no one really know how to handle the counting. Just zero? 100 against? 500 against? Help please!

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  44. No they are not counted against you. They count for you. 100 each.

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  45. If you have a dirty book ( not the required one) can you ever bury an additional wild card into that book?

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  46. If you play 2 aces 1 wild can you add another wild card to it?

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    1. Yes you can but you must start the book with at least two natural cards before you can add any wilds.

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  47. What is the point score for a second wild book, also what about a second five or seven pile

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  48. 2500 for the second Wild book, 3000 for second 5 book & 5000 for second 7 book!

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  49. All wild books are 2500, all books of 5's are 3000 and all books of 7's are 5000.

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  50. If you only have 2 wild cards in your hand and you draw 2 wild cards, what do you do since you are not supposed to discard wild cards?

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  51. Never said you cannot discard a wild card. You can discard any card you wish during the game except red threes.

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  52. I made my first canasta and picked up my knee. It's my partner's turn and she forgets to pick up her knee. She has been reminded and l,000 points are deducted. It's her next turn, she again forgets. Does this keep going until she remembers and is the 1,000 point deduction a one time deduction.

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  53. How many points do you need to meld each round? I've read this a couple of times and don't see those instructions.

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  54. can you freeze the deck like in hand and foot. If it is frozen and a person lays down a card and the next player has two in their hand do you pick up the whole pile or just to the frozen card

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    1. No you cannot freeze the deck except that you cannot pick up the pile when a black three is on top.

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  55. we have a player that once she plays on the meld cards and she decides a discard she thinks its ok to take a card back from the meld pile and use it as a discard instead of playing from whats left in her hand. My feeling is once a card is played on the meld or discarded it cannot be picked back up.

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    1. You are correct. Once a card is laid it is considered played.

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  56. We were playing last night and had something new occur that we did not have an answer for. One of the players on our team could go out if they picked the pile. There was a Queen on top and a Black 3 underneath e since pile had been recently picked up. Does he ask before picking up the pile if his team wants to go out, since if a teammate says no he would not pick up the pile?

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    1. It is the players decision as to when to ask if they can go out. It just has to be in their turn.

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  57. player discards a deuce can the next player pick up the pack if she/he has a deuce and a joker or do you need two deuces

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  58. If you have 2 or three natural cards on board with one wild card, can you add a second wild card to the meld.

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  59. Yes, but no more than two in a book.

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  60. If you have an extra book of 5's, 7's or wilds that are not in your essentials, can you tuck on these extras?

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    1. No, you cannot. Because they are scored the same 1200. 3000, and 7000.

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    2. Isn't that: 2500, 3000, & 7000?

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    3. Must have been having a bad day when I mistyped that. You are correct.

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  61. I'm new to the game. We play that if your partner is able to pick up their foot, you can only pick up your foot if you get rid of all the cards in your hand. Is this a standard rule or a "house" rule?

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  62. Can you play this game online? I play this game with friends but would also like to play online anytime I want.

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    1. I have yet to find a site with this game on it.

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  63. If a team does not make Book, how do you score the partial they have made? In addition, if they made two books of 5s, but not total Book, how would that be scored?

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    1. You score the completed books and count the individual cards. If no completed books then count individual cards only.

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  64. If you have picked up pile and you have a lot of black threes could you lay three or more to go out

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    2. Would be nice, I agree. But sorry the answer is no.

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  65. If you partner has forgotten to pick up her knee but remembers by herself two turns later, does she get penalized 1000 points if she is a turn or two late in picking it up?

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    2. They are not penalized. Only if reminded by another team player. This rule is optional. We usually do not penalize.

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  66. If someone accidentally discards a red three, can she take it back or is “ a card laid is a card played.”

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  67. Red 3's can never be discarded.

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    1. Red 3's are never discarded. Yes, they must take the card back and discard a different one.

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  68. If you have enough points in your hand to make an initial meld, can you pick up the entire pile (assuming you have two other natural cards of that number), or do you only pick up the top card only, and not the whole pile?

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  69. A little disagreement regarding what happens when you draw a red 3. We play that when you draw a red 3 you immediately draw a card to replace the red 3 plus 2 additional cards. Recently, we were told that when you draw a red 3 you only draw 2 cards, Can you help us with the correct play?

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    1. Draw a red 3. Then draw another card plus one more. So that a total of 2 regular cards have been drawn.

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  70. I am confused on you pick up the entire pile and when you pick up the top card only. Also when you pick up the pile you don’t discard?

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    1. If you have already melded and still have two in your hand of the top card then you pick up the entire pile. If you have not melded and you need the top card to meld. Then two in your hand gets you the top card only to include in your meld. Both cases you do not discard.

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  71. Can you discard a5 or 7 if you do not have either canasta?

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    1. You can discard anything you want except red 3's

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  72. How many decks are required for this game? And do they have to be canasta cards with point values on them?

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    1. 4 players = 6 decks, 6 players = 7 decks. All cards have a point value.

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  73. How many cards do you draw when only 2people are playing

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  74. When playing with 6 (2 teams with 3 people) how many basic books do you need to go out? Is it the same as playing with 4? One of each (7’s, 5’s, wilds, clean and dirty canastas).

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  75. Replies
    1. Total all 4 games together for each team. Highest score wins.

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  76. Total all 4 games together for each team. Highest score wins.

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  77. 4 ladies at our senior living facility played this game for the first time the other day and game one lasted for 2 1/2 hours and our scores were 77,000 plus. At this rate, we could never play 4 games at one time and the total score of 4 games would be 308,000 plus. We all agreed that we must have done something wrong or is this the way the game is supposed to be? By the way, we all felt like our brains were fried just after the one game. Yes we are seniors, but still...........

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  78. When counting at end of game and you have 2 melds of same are there extra points ?

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  79. Hello. If a player forgets to play their knee and it has gone around before anyone caught it. Then on their second turn after they forgot someone says you didn’t pick up your knee last turn, does the penalty apply or does it only apply when they complete the second turn?

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  80. Buried Cards: How many additional cards can be added to extra books?

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